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Re: Gifford, Gary K
GrendelGrendel 1256000234|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Hi. My name's Wesley Parish, and like a lot of you I'm an SF addict; I'm currently doing a programming course to get up to date on one of the current popular languages, Java. I live in New Zealand.

I learnt chess at an early age, though I haven't done a lot of playing over the years; I've invented one (or perhaps more) chess variants, though on a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri that can quite safely be predicted not to have any influence from the Earth game: it's got a few twists - you have a citadel aka City, you have a Massif in the middle, and you have a set of free actors who are nominally on your side, in a "valley" running up both sides of the board: the trick is to suborn the opposition's free actors by placing one of your Lords (bishop plus Castle) within the free actors' "valley" on the opponent's side of the board, thus giving you a free pass to attack within the opponent's City and bypass the Massif, which is otherwise the key to success. I suspect I got a lot from my exposure to one of the Chinese versions of Chess, which I learnt to play in my late twenties.

Re: Gifford, Gary K by GrendelGrendel, 1256000234|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

More things to consider here. Looking at chess as a wargame, you get to see elements that can be part of the scope of change. Here is a CV topic thread on this.:
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/listcomments.php?subjectid=ChessAsAWargame

Chess is said to be war abstracted, and a wargame of sort. To this end, I
figured I would look at what is involved war (and chess variants) and see
how they equate. Please look over this, discuss and debate. I will look
to post here and/or edit, if I see any more changes. Ok, onto the
elements, and how they map to chess:

  • Terrain: The Board, or pawns in FIDE chess. This marks what is fought over. Pawns act as walls in FIDE chess, and protect the king.
  • Units: Pieces.
  • Air Units: Leapers.
  • Transport Units: Pawns that promote to other pieces can be seen as this. Castling is a very abstract form of transporting. Gating could also be seen as matching this.
  • Artillery: Units that capture enemy units without moving.
  • Support: A piece that defends a friendly piece on the board.
  • Reserves: Pocket pieces, or possibly what Pawns promote to.
  • Weather: If you were to play with mutators for a chess game, that would seem like weather to me. A variable set of rules that may or may not appear in a game.
  • Formation: The starting positions for pieces.
  • Suppression: Pinning a piece.
  • Generals/Commander: Players
  • Headquarters: Chess King (Royal pieces)
  • Morale: Emotional states of players.
  • Scenario: A game variant (a set combination of all the above).

I believe it would be beneficial if we consider having the improvements fall under categories/components. To this end, I am proposing a few:
1. Having different classes of chess variants, as is seen in IAGO Chess System, with one of its purposes being to help provide a structured guiding of the evolution of the game:
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSiagochesssyste

2. Having different formations, that meet guidelines, as is seen here:
http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSmultipleformat

3. Categorizing a standard set of rules variations, in the form of mutators. JP Neto explores this here:
http://homepages.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/cv/mutators.htm

4. Standardize a list of the names of pieces that fit certain move types.

These are just a few. I am fairly certain some others have slipped my mind.

JohnSmithCVJohnSmithCV 1251611263|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Flatschach

I actually had the same idea for a game…

by JohnSmithCVJohnSmithCV, 1251611263|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Preset for Shuuro
j_carrillo_viij_carrillo_vii 1245629296|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Sure Joe.

You can use and do with the preset or customize it however you want.

I'm into random variants, so when I saw Alberto's issue, I took it as a challenge.

I have to admit I like the concept of the random pillars. I may use it as an option in some of my random variants. It's quite neat!

Cheers,
Jose

Re: Preset for Shuuro by j_carrillo_viij_carrillo_vii, 1245629296|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Preset for Shuuro
Joe JoyceJoe Joyce 1245617430|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Hi, Jose:

Thank you, both for Alberto and me! I know he will like this; would you mind if I grab this preset and put it in the Preset Primer? Or, you could add it, with a bit of explanation. I am very non-technical these days, and appreciate every bit of info I can get. This is definitely worth saving and adding to the primer.

Thanks again,

Joe

Re: Preset for Shuuro by Joe JoyceJoe Joyce, 1245617430|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Alberto Giusti for Shuuro
j_carrillo_viij_carrillo_vii 1245616667|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Hi Alberto,

I created this simple preset that does what you need, randomize 2 Plinths per 6x6 quadrant:
http://play.chessvariants.org/pbm/play.php?game%3DShuuro%26settings%3DSetup2

I selected a red circle to represent the Plinths, and Knights with a little orange line on the bottom to represent Knights standing on Plinths.

You can customize the pieces however you want, but this preset will give you just enough to get your variant going.

To test it go to the link, and press the Move button. It will clear the pieces from the board and randomly place the plinths.

Now you are ready to place your pieces according to your rules.

The preset doesn't enforce any rules.

Good luck!

Jose

Re: Alberto Giusti for Shuuro by j_carrillo_viij_carrillo_vii, 1245616667|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Shuuro
guanxiguanxi 1245609836|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Shuuro

Hi, I'm Alberto from Italy. I'm a chess fan and I'm here because I'm trying to learn GAME Code and programming presets to create a Game Courier version for Shuuro (http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSshuuro). Here the rules in English. Now I'm at this point but I don't know how to create a random function to generate 2 plinths in each quadrant of 6X6 squares. Plinths are squares where only knights could go. I've read the Preset Primer (thank you very much Joe) but I've no idea. Could you please suggest me the best solution? Thank you. Alberto

Shuuro by guanxiguanxi, 1245609836|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Alberto Giusti for Shuuro
guanxiguanxi 1245609664|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Sorry… I don't' know how to create the plinths that are squares where only the knights could go. Thanks

Re: Alberto Giusti for Shuuro by guanxiguanxi, 1245609664|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Alberto Giusti for Shuuro
guanxiguanxi 1245609538|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Hi, I'm Alberto from Italy. I'm a chess fan and I'm here because I'm trying to learn GAME Code and programming presets to create a Game Courier version for Shuuro (http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSshuuro). Here the rules in English. Now I'm at this point but I don't know how to create a random function to generate 2 plinths in each quadrant of 6X6 squares. I've read the Preset Primer (thank you very much Joe) but I've no idea. Could you please suggest me the best solution? Thank you. Alberto

Alberto Giusti for Shuuro by guanxiguanxi, 1245609538|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Answers 1
Joe JoyceJoe Joyce 1245218074|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » WarGame

Hi, Graeme:

I see the Chieftain series as the ancient version, with Overlord introducing slightly more modern "weapons" and a larger [and in that sense more modern] army. These games are deliberately very chess-like. WarGame approaches the idea of a chess-wargame hybrid from the other direction, keeping only the deterministic captures of chess and its variants.

I expect this game to be a "proof of concept" sort of thing. Oddly, I see a more "ancient-style" game having longer movement factors as a possibility, to give at least a few/some pieces a ranged attack.

I was thinking of using hexes, but I decided to stick with squares to start. I'm currently looking at a few pieces on a 20x40 board, but I'd like to extend the long side to 45 or 50 if I can and still have a "1-screen" board that's reasonably visible.

I thought of a points system, and hidden setups - I have looked at 4x5 blocks of squares and pieces that could be bought as a whole - but I will probably offer that as an option, and go with a reversed setup of some sort with identical armies in exactly corresponding positions.

I still have to put in line-of-sight rules, but they are easy and obvious. The leaders are what I do not have down at all yet. They pose many difficulties. I've experimented with various sorts of leaders, but I don't know quite where to take these leaders. I was thinking of working up to the chain of command gradually, but envisioned 3, maybe 4, levels.

Now, if 3 levels, there'd be 2 top leaders, who would mutually activate each other as well as their subordinates. With 4 levels, it is not necessary that the top leader be very mobile. I could see a command post that moved 1, and used an activation up to do so. That would pin it down pretty well, but still give some flexibility.

I'm still not sure quite how many pieces each leader can activate.And with chain of command rules, I will have 2 kinds of activation, active and passive. Passive is just being within range of a higher-level leader, and it allows a leader to become activated itself. Active activation [really p-poor term, that] is what occurs in chief [and chesimals] to allow a piece to actually move in a turn. Ranges for the 2 types may be different for any given leader. I'm thinking the lowest-level leaders might move 2 pieces and themselves, or thereabouts. Not any good ideas about higher-level leaders, though I think any leader should at least be able to activate 1 piece to move every turn.

There's one more consideration, and that's the percentage of the army that moves each turn. At start, for FIDE it's 1 in 16. For the chief series, at start, it's 1 in 8. I don't know that I'd want to be moving more than 1/6th of my army at start, to keep some semblance of order and calculability in the game. Obviously, as pieces are lost, and leaders are preserved, the fraction of the army that moves each turn goes up. You're pretty much to the endgame when you're moving 1/3 of your army each turn, because if you are moving 1/2 of your army each turn, each non-leader piece has its own leader to move it, and after that, the leaders are coming into the front lines.

That's what I'm looking at so far. This is as far as I've gotten with a preset - not very:
[http://play.chessvariants.org/pbm/play.php?game%3DWarGame+1%26settings%3DWargame1]

Joe

Answers 1 by Joe JoyceJoe Joyce, 1245218074|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Questions
GrayhawkeGrayhawke 1245214220|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » WarGame

Like the idea, though I prefer Ancient to Modern.
Perhaps the range of piece types could be extended to encompass various epochs - sword and shield, pike and musket, rifle and cannon, lazers and robots?
Presumably the armies are chosen on some points system?
Were you thinking of using hexes for the playing area?

Any leader can issue orders but cannot itself move unless it is within range of a higher-level leader.
So the highest level leader cannot move?

Cheers
Graeme

Questions by GrayhawkeGrayhawke, 1245214220|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Round 1 is in the books...
jejujejujejujeju 1223880535|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Round 1

Will try to set up the schedule for round 2 this week…

Round 1 is in the books... by jejujejujejujeju, 1223880535|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Larry Gilbert: geek
Joe JoyceJoe Joyce 1221976855|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Hi, Larry, and welcome. I've put up a page called Preset Primer, which is a start at making a simple guide to presets. Since my tech skills are so 20th century, I stick to telling people how to make a basic non-rules checking preset. So I'm very happy someone wants to tackle the code end. I look forward to seeing your stuff.
Enjoy!
Joe

Re: Larry Gilbert: geek by Joe JoyceJoe Joyce, 1221976855|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Larry Gilbert: geek
LarryGilbertLarryGilbert 1221963029|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Hello all,

I've known about the Chess Variants site for years, but only recently got caught up in it again. I've become a fan of Game Courier, and, being a computer geek, I've gotten drawn into learning GAME Code and programming presets. The documentation for the language is a tad difficult for me to wade through, though, so I thought having an alternate reference on a wiki would be something worth trying. Lo and behold, a search-engine search revealed that there is already an unofficial wiki for the Chess Variants site, so here I am!

Larry Gilbert: geek by LarryGilbertLarryGilbert, 1221963029|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: 'Modern' Chess Variants
ludicludic 1215390833|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Belated Welcome! It is good to have you here!

I like the reverse symmetry idea, it gives random setup variants a natural tension from the start. With each side starting with a strong half and a weak half. And with each side's strong half facing the other side's weak half and vice versa. One must decide to attack or defend. each of these necessarily take away from the other. I f you attack too much your defense suffers, If you defend too much you make no progress to winning!

Welcome!

-Ludic

Re: 'Modern' Chess Variants by ludicludic, 1215390833|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
'Modern' Chess Variants
j_carrillo_viij_carrillo_vii 1213238756|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » Introduce Yourself

Hello all!

My name is José Carrillo. I'm originally from the island of Puerto Rico, and I currently live in Ontario, Canada.

I'm the founder of the Fischer Random Chess eMail Club (FRCEC), and I'm a rookie chess variants designer.

I recently discovered the Prime Minister piece (Bishop + Knight) and Modern Chess (I know, I know, who cares about 9x9 variants…[I do!]), and after defining the general 'Modern' principles, have designed several 'Modern' Chess variants including: Modern Random Chess (9x9), Prime Ministers Chess (9x8), Contemporary Random Chess (8x8), Modern Capablanca Random Chess (10x8), and I'm working on a couple others.

'Modern' Chess Variants by j_carrillo_viij_carrillo_vii, 1213238756|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
hgmullerhgmuller 1210939784|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » 31 Basic Pieces

Ok, I completed several tests. In standard Capablanca Chess (i.e. without Short-Range leapers in stead of A and C) Fairy-Max did not have any bias towards white or black. That is no guarantee, however, that the Lions will not introduce such a bias by themselves, because thire moves being considered in an order that is the same for white and black. To eliminate such a possible effect, I will make sure that all subsequents tests will be done with each test position also played after color-reversal.

A second test I did was measure the effect of centralization drive on the Lions. This indeed is fairly large. If I play two versions of Fairy-Max against each other, from an opening position that is Capablanca Chess with A and C replaced by Lions, the version that tries to centralize its Lion scores 57.5% (measured over 1000 games) against a version that doesn't. So leaving the Lion freely diffusing over the board was indeed a very inferior strategy. Backward moves (the same as moves away from the center, as a Lion in enemy territory doesn't survive long) are usually bad strategy. If the engine knows this, there is no harm in adding such moves to a piece, as it will only do them in case of an emergency. But otherwise, adding the moves will seduce the engine into using them too often, and the upward compatible (and thus better) piece will cause a worse result, because of the clumsy handling.

I have a fast compile now of the version that allows me to program the centralization drive of a piece through the .ini file, 1.5 times as fast as my own compile. This means I can switch my testing again to 40/1', speeding things up. So I am currently running games where one side has two handicapped Lions, lacking one of the moves (or a pair of symmetry-equivalent moves). When I have done all 14 of those, I will report the results here.

by hgmullerhgmuller, 1210939784|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The value of the Lion
hgmullerhgmuller 1210440891|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » 31 Basic Pieces

Yes, something like that should do it. In Fairy-Max I even have a very simplified approach to centralizing SR and light pieces (like anything is extremely minimalist there; one cannot make the smallest engine in the world by paying attention to too many details…). Each piece gets a penalty equal to the square of the distance to the point between e4 and e5 (on 8x8; on 10x8 that is f4 and f5). This makes such pieces migrate towards the center.

I now changed Fairy-Max such that it decides to apply this penalty to a piece not based on the programmed value, but by an independent parameter for each piece type in the .ini file. So I now can play with a Lion that is penalized for staying asleep on the back rank. Problem is that this version is 1.8 times slower, as I had to compile it myself. The previous version was made for me by a compilation wizzard, using a better compiler, which I dobn't have.

I hope this helps. A second problem is that Fairy-Max might not be equally strong with black and with white (even if I give black the first move). This because of the direction in which it scans the board for generating moves. For moves with equal scores it picks the first it encounters. And that gives it a bias for piece moves with black, and for pawn moves with white… Or, for a piece like the Lion, which has a veryl long list of moves, the move listed first might get a larger probability to be chosen than moves at the end of the list that defines it. And that same move might be a forward move for black, but a backward move for white, causing black and white on the average to handle the piece differently! This effect should be a lot larger if all moves tend to score equal, because the piece is not attracted to the center. A centralizing drive hopefully eliminates most of it.

So I have to be very careful. I will play each setup equally often with black and white having the handicapped Lion to eliminate the directional bias, and equal number of times with white and black having the first move (to eliminate the bias of the leading move). I am testing if there is already a black vs white bias in pure Capablanca Chess, but there seems to be none: If I alternately let black and white start, the result is not significantly different from 50%. I will play 400 games to establish this. Then I will play 400 games (200 with black, 200 with white) of a Lion that is attracted towards the center, versus a Lion that diffuses neutrally over the board, to make sure that centralizing a Lion is not an inferior strategy. After that, I am ready to try handicapped Lions vs normal ones.

Re: The value of the Lion by hgmullerhgmuller, 1210440891|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: The value of the Lion
Joe JoyceJoe Joyce 1210271092|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
in discussion Hidden / Per page discussions » 31 Basic Pieces

I would suspect any piece that leaps 2 would do fairly well to stay near the knight's "optimum squares". I know nothing about the theory behind all this, but the knights have "optimum" squares in the neighborhood of the center. These squares [with maybe some tweaking after experience] should also be the better and best locations for any pieces that move 2, 3, or 4 squares maximum in a turn. They are the squares that the short range pieces can get to in 1 or 2 moves max, that give the piece [almost?] full movement range, and attack the center into the opponent's side of the board. These squares are not, in the beginning up to midgame, the exact center squares generally, but near/next to them. This makes the piece easier to guard as that placement keeps it out of the full crossfire of the enemy [unless you're losing badly ;-) ]. In midgame, those pieces are good anywhere around the center, or even along the midline, either side of the board, but may get hurt if they cross the board completely. In the end, a pair of stronger shortrange leapers in a breakaway attack against the enemy king can finish a game in short order. One common defense tactic is keeping 1 or 2 shortrange pieces back, often a pair of weak ones, to guard the pawns and approaches to the king. The king, also, especially in entirely shortrange games, is a valuable defensive piece. This has been my experience playing games against human opponents with piece mixes from pure 2-square shortrange to roughly 50:50 mixes of short and long range pieces, either predominating, across a range of board sizes.

Re: The value of the Lion by Joe JoyceJoe Joyce, 1210271092|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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